In This Episode
In this episode, Rory Holland sits down with Chris Levy, President and CEO of Pursuit, a mission-driven community development financial institution (CDFI). Chris shares his remarkable homegrown journey, rising from a summer intern to the head of the organization in just over a decade.
They dive into the discipline required to complete a law degree while working full-time, the strategic decision to rebrand a 70-year-old institution to unify its identity, and Pursuit’s pivotal role in deploying $780 million in PPP loans to small businesses. Chris also reflects on the human side of leadership—balancing a high-stakes career with the transition to first-time fatherhood and the value of embracing tough feedback to grow as an executive.
Key Takeaways
- The Power of Institutional Loyalty: Chris’s path from intern to CEO highlights the immense value of deep institutional knowledge and long-term commitment.
- Alternative Legal Careers: Legal training provides a unique analytical framework for credit risk and executive decision-making, even without traditional practice.
- Unified Branding for Growth: Consolidating three legacy brands into one called Pursuit allowed the team to align under a single identity and clarify its market position.
- Proof of Mission: Pursuit’s successful deployment of $780 million to 11,000+ small businesses during the pandemic served as the ultimate proof-of-concept for its model.
- The Capital Continuum: Mission-driven lenders act as a vital bridge, helping startups grow until they are ready for traditional bank financing.
- Responsible Lending: In an era of high-interest credit, responsible lending focuses on placing business owners in a position to actually succeed.
- Embracing Growth Feedback: Leadership development often requires the humility to accept and act on tough feedback, such as becoming more assertive.
Transcript
The Journey of Pursuit Lending
Chris Levy
So February, 2020 is right before the pandemic. We did this rebrand. We had all these events planned out. We’re going to host these big events to launch the company and whatnot. And then the world shut down. And we were already on the path of rebranding. We stuck with it. And it was actually incredible to see all the people, even though we didn’t see them in person. And we just kind of announced this rebrand that latched on. like, you guys are the Pursuit now? Cool. That’s great.
Opening Remarks
Rory Holland
Hi, I’m Rory Holland, CEO of CSTMR and the host of Mighty Finsights. Every year I have the privilege of talking with hundreds of financial leaders and innovators. Today I’ve invited the President and CEO of Pursuit Lending, Chris Levy. Pursuit is a community development financial institution, or CDFI, that operates in the Northeastern United States. For more than 70 years, Pursuit has helped small business owners get the funding and resources they need to operate and grow their businesses.
In this conversation, we discuss the unusual path Chris took to becoming the CEO, Pursuit’s success with the PPP and how it exceeded their wildest expectations, and why they chose to rebrand after more than 70 years in business. Mighty Finsights helps you uncover the human side of financial services in fintech, revealing the courageous choices in leaders shaping how we engage with money.
Join me as we dive beneath the brand to learn what’s really happening.
Interview
Rory Holland
Well, hi Chris, welcome to the show. So great to have you here.
Chris Levy
Appreciate it, Rory. Thanks for having me.
Rory Holland
Man, yeah, we go back years. We’ve been working together for a long, long time. It’s great to finally have you on.
A Shared Love of Golf
Rory Holland
So before we dive into Pursuit and all the great work you guys are doing in the space and your years of history doing what you’re doing, I wanted to start out with just one, we share a passion and it’s golf. It’s an interesting time to talk about golf because right here in Austin, Texas, depending on when people are listening to the show, it’s iced over. So you could pay ice golf if there’s such a thing. I don’t know. But how did you fall into love and golf and any fun stories?
Chris Levy
Well, I’m in Albany, New York, and we got about a foot of snow over the weekend. So no golf here probably until April. So it’s a tough off season to get through all that.
But I was lucky enough as a kid to really start golf young. My dad played golf, so growing up, I had golf clubs in my hand at a young age. And I’m really happy about that. Now older on in life, when all my friends were going up, they’re like, you’re going to play golf? What’s up with that? And they thought they were better because they played football or basketball or whatever. But now all of my friends, everybody wants to play golf because it’s a lifelong sport that you can play and now they’re all jealous that they’re not as good as me because I’ve been playing longer in life so yeah, I’m really happy that my dad got me into that as a young age and it’s a great thing, you know, especially for me and him to have together. You know, we play in our member guest golf tournament every year together. So it’s nice to have that relationship and bond over the game of golf, which I know you love as well.
Rory Holland
Yeah, that’s awesome. So how do you recall how old you were when you first started playing with your dad?
Chris Levy
Oh, I remember being out on the course probably six, seven years old. Still remember the par three at the Palatine Club in Newburgh where I made my first par and then at Albany Country Club making my first birdie. I was probably 10 or something like that. So yeah, still have all those memories and just those lifelong things that will continue to stay with me as we play the game.
Rory Holland
Oh my gosh, I share that with you. It brings back a lot of memories for me. You just talking about it. Same thing, my folks, when I was young, my dad was a golfer. Self-employed, had his own contracting business. And so when we had time, mornings, afternoons, like after school, we go up to the club and he would, I had like an old, I can’t even describe the bag. I think I had four or five clubs maybe, but basically just out there barefoot running around, go to the pool, then go play. Charlotte, North Carolina is where I grew up before, before heading to Detroit, Michigan for high school and college. But yeah, that’s awesome. Great memories. And it’s such a wonderful sport.
For those that are listening that love it, they get it. For those that don’t, try it. It’s cool. It’s not easy. It’s not easy.
Chris Levy
It’s definitely not easy.
Rory Holland
But you’re going to hit one good shot at least while you’re playing, and that’s going to bring you back.
Chris Levy
Exactly.
Chris Levy’s Unique Path to CEO
Rory Holland
So awesome. So I wanted to take a step towards pursuit and talk a little bit about your career path. Really cool. You started out, make sure, correct me if I’m wrong, but as I understand, your history with Pursuit. You started as an intern, is that right?
Chris Levy
That is correct.
Rory Holland
And then you worked your way all the way up through the business. You studied law. You’ve done a variety of different things. Tell us a little bit about that story of how from intern and law degree to now being CEO of the company.
Chris Levy
Yeah, it’s nice now to take a step back and look at that journey and really appreciate it because it’s certainly unique. Not many people can say they’ve been with the same company for their entirety of their career. And to have that progression has been really great and fulfilling for me. So I started as an intern at Pursuit. I went to the University of Maryland for my undergrad and studied finance there. And during a couple summers, I interned at Pursuit, started doing loan reviews and insurance tracking and just to go get somebody’s car wash form, whatever it took, I was doing it in those intern days.
What was really fun about it was there was a small group of interns. So we all kind of worked together, you know, just getting to know the business. And what was really great about it was here at Pursuit, we were given real work. It wasn’t, you know, go copy papers or this or that. There was obviously some of that, but we were given real work. went out and met with our small business owners. So it really gave me a true understanding of what the business was and really excited me about the company. So when I finished my undergrad, had always planned on going to law school after that. And I spoke with the CEO at the time and said, I’m planning on going to law school. But in the meantime, from when I graduate till I start law school, can I do another internship? I know I don’t plan for it to lead to anything, but I just like something to do. And he, Pat McCrell was his name, and he was the former CEO. And he was an attorney and had kind of gone through a similar path that I had gone. And he recommended to me, why don’t you think about working here full time and doing law school part time? That way you’re getting experience at a job, you’re making money, and you can kind pay for it as you go. And I thought that was a great kind of solution for me in between to not just jump right into law school, but also have that job component of it. And Frank is best decision that I’ve ever made. So I really have to thank him for making that recommendation to me because it allowed me to get ingrained in a company that obviously I’m very proud to work for and has stayed with my entire career. So that advice has really carried me a long way in my career and has really gotten me even more ingrained and passionate about the work that we do here at Pursuit.
Rory Holland
Talk a little bit about that. You guys are an interesting business structure as far as your small business lending and the way that you support small businesses. I want to get into a little bit of the history before the name pursuit, before you renamed yourselves and talk a little bit about Pat maybe.
The History of Pursuit Before the Name Change
But what is it that what does it make people might not understand about the work that you do and the impact that you’re making?
Chris Levy
Yes, so we’re a small business lender and we’re really mission focused. So we’re trying to get funding and capital out to businesses that need it. They may not be able to get it from a traditional bank source or they may have an opportunity that may fall outside of kind of traditional credit opportunities. And we want to be that lender that can help work with them, provide them not only capital, but also advisory services to help start, grow, expand their business in many ways. We really work closely with the small business owners that we serve. We want to be part of community.
You know, our mission and vision is to create a more inclusive economy where every business owner has a path to success. So we’re mission focused, obviously financially focused on how do we get credit to these businesses, but really want to serve the broader business community with the resources and programs that we have to offer.
Rory Holland
Yeah, and when you came into the business, did you understand mission-driven? Lending, like in the business at all, as an intern, did you have any experience before that?
Chris Levy
No experience before that. I guess the little small business experience I had, I did in high school work at Brugger’s Bagels. So I had a little bit of the bakery and me background of working at a business. But outside of that, yeah, I never really understood kind of the layering and context of the different financial institutions and how they all work together.
I think, and I say this all the time to people, and you go to college and you’re studying finance or business or whatever, and every time it’s, let’s analyze Amazon or Apple or these big companies, and the backbone of America is built on these small businesses, and you don’t always get that kind of in the traditional learning sense. So I had tremendous value in my internship of really being involved in the small business community, learning about the mission where Pursuit fits into the larger landscape and just the impact that it has. I mean, there’s nothing better for me, you know, in my job today or back then when you go out and meet a small business and just how, you know, happy and thankful and appreciative they are of the work that we do together and how that is helping shape their business and then personally in their growth. So there’s that fulfilling aspect of the job as well that I really, really appreciate.
The Difference Between Mission-Driven and Conventional Lending Business Models
Rory Holland
For the audience, how would you describe the difference between a mission-driven lender like Pursuit and more traditional like whether there’s a lending marketplaces or other lenders?
Chris Levy
I think the biggest thing for us is the flexibility that we’re afforded. Traditional banks, they’re heavily regulated. There are certain standards that they have to adhere to, certain capital requirements that their regulators put on them. So it forces them to be a little bit stricter in their lending. Through the programs that we have and the way that we’re formed in the collaborative relationships that we’ve developed, we’re able to be a little bit more creative and flexible with our financing.
All Lenders Are Not Created Equal
Rory Holland
All lenders are not created equal. This should go without saying, but I think the age of near instant credit approvals from digital lenders makes it seem like the differences are all in the numbers. But the reality is, that institutions like Pursuit offer completely different experience. I think mission-based lenders play a critical role in our economy, and I love the work Pursuit is doing. SBA loans aren’t for everyone, but they are a lifeline for many businesses.
Chris Levy
Which really opens the doors for more nuance for additional programs and additional ways of doing things. So we like to think that we have a slightly expanded credit box. Now, we’re not here just to hand it out money to anyone because they think they need it. But we expand that credit box a little bit to hopefully open the doors for more businesses to be able to obtain financing.
Small Businesses’ Experience with Pursuit
Rory Holland
Where does CDFIs and like Pursuit fit? Like if you were to try to kind of describe verbally what it looks like visually, when you think about a small business owner in your market, in your community, is seeking financing to either start or operate and grow their business? What are they seeing, would you say, and then when they come to you, is there like a light bulb that goes on like, wow, this exists, this is out here for me? Or like, how would you describe that first kind of visually like the marketplace itself for small business owners, what they’re viewing and then some of their experiences once they discover Pursuit?
Rory Holland
Yeah, I think for most businesses when they have a lending need or a financing need, their first thought is I’m going to go to my bank. That’s just kind of what we’re all taught. So typically our clients start at a bank and our goal is to build relationships with our bank partners so that they’re aware of us and our programs. And if something at a bank may not work for whatever reason, or they just know that our programs can work collaboratively and be advantageous for that business owner, our hope is that that bank says, you know, here’s an opportunity for us to work with Pursuit to get you what you need because it may not fall within those traditional bank parameters.
We’re kind of on that step just below where a bank would typically provide financing. And the beauty of what we do is not only are we kind of there for the ones that banks may have to say no to, but we also work collaboratively with banks and do joint financing as well. So it’s really a great tool to use us not only to provide that lending, but also to continue to work with a business owner so that they can become a more traditional bank client down
So we look at it, we call it the capital continuum where you kind of had this ladder where you’re building yourself up as a small business to be able to get to that. the most bankable client. Everybody wants me. They’re fighting over me to be a client. You may start out at a lower level as a startup business and then you’ll work your way up through different loan programs and products as that business continues to flourish.
The Impact of the PPP Program
Rory Holland
How would you say that CDF eyes and mission driven lenders are doing marketing themselves? Not necessarily Pursuit. Pursuit’s a client by the way of ours. We’ve been with you guys a long time and I do want to talk about the name Pursuit and how that came to be. But before that, know, my impression working with other CDFIs and CRF USA and building the first ever marketplace for that Connect to Capital. I know you guys are partnered with CRF. My understanding coming into it many years ago and looking to support small businesses finding financing through CDFIs in their local communities was that the marketing wasn’t great. There wasn’t enough of awareness. What have you seen changed and have you seen things changed over the years so that more small businesses are able to find you guys?
Chris Levy
Awareness is always the number one thing that we talk about. The number of people that I talk to, they hear about our programs, come back and say, wow, this is incredible. How have I never heard of this before? And they’re just so excited for that. It’s great to hear that because then they want to work with us. But it’s also, how do we collectively get more awareness out there? Because these are really good programs that can be really advantageous for businesses and are really successful. It just takes more awareness. It’s difficult because, as I said, most people, their first thought is, well, I’m going to go to my bank.that’s not their first thought of let me find a CDFI. Most business owners don’t even know what a CDFI is. So I think the awareness has certainly grown over the last probably five or six years. I think actually the pandemic really helped with that because there were so many programs that were started as a result of the pandemic through different state and national and local initiatives that put CDFIs more at the forefront. And I think there’s more recognition for the products and services that CDF eyes offer that I think it is certainly a growing knowledge that is happening in terms of that awareness that you know we’re really proud of like to think that the work that that we’ve done together or he has led to some of that as well. But I think the the more and more kind of grassroots emphasis on it and and the word of mouth and things like that goes a really long way in ensuring that these business owners know these programs are there to take advantage.
Rory Holland
Yeah, I want to ask you a question for those that aren’t watching this on video, but just listening to audio. Chris has a really cool lapel pin. Tell me a little bit about that.
Chris Levy
So my lapel pin, it kind of looks like a bird. Some people call it a bird. We call it a flight graphic. So when we rebranded our company in 2020 to Pursuit, part of that logo was this flight graphic that’s included and you know it being a bird is kind of meant kind of like I talked about before with the capital continuum is how those businesses growing in building on their success and that’s what we like to think that that we do here at pursuit you know we’re here you know helping the American dream helping push things forward and helping you know that bird kind of rise up. You know as a business would with with the assistance from us so I love wearing wearing the lapel pin not everyone always knows exactly what it is but it forces me to tell a story which I appreciate.
Rory Holland
No, I love it. Definitely visit PursuitLending.com. You’ll see what Chris and I are talking about. I want to go back in time.
Rebranding from NYBDC to Pursuit
There’s a couple of things I want to talk about. One is originally talking with Pat and then our mutual friend Laura Kozian and working through a rename and a rebrand for a decades old business like Pursuit Lending, formerly called New York Business Development Corporation. Boy, that was a mouthful, right? Or NYBDC, we had the privilege of working with you guys through the naming process. What do you think inspired Pat and your team to want to do that? And I’m going to pause there. I have a following question. But what do you think inspired you guys to go that route at that time?
Chris Levy
Yeah, well, I’ll just say you think about a brand and how do you change a name from NYBDC to Pursuit? It’s a total 180 in terms of the change. And you mentioned Laura and her work on that. I remember being in a meeting where we were trying to come up with different ways to kind of market and position NYBDC at the time. And we were trying all these different ways. And could we call it this or that? well, if you, it sounds too much like a, you know, government agency, doesn’t sound like what you do. It doesn’t sound like you’re really helping businesses or you’re approachable or anything like that. We’re in different states. It wasn’t just New York. So kind of have that affiliation there that isn’t the best when you’re going into Pennsylvania or New Jersey or Connecticut. And we all kind of said we need something different. And we were all pretty nervous at the time because NYBDC was founded in 1955. And we’re talking, you know, 2018, 19 when we started thinking about rebranding. So you have this decades old business and you want to completely change the name.
And I think we all kind of said like, makes sense, but there’s no way that anybody’s going to go for this, to give Laura credit for putting the idea out there and give Pat credit for kind of taking the idea and running with it and supporting it, I think it’s been an incredible change for our company, for our culture, and just the perception of us in the market. We don’t have kind of all those things that were hindering us from really growing and being one organization that provided all of these valuable resources. Now our brand and our name and our logo really supports everything that we’ve been doing for almost 70 years now. But now it’s all in that one brand and one name. And so we’re really proud of that and excited to continue building on that brand. It’s been about six years. Six years next month actually will be the anniversary of the name Pursuit.
Rory Holland
It’s been a wonderful process to go through with you guys and we knew how important it was to get it right and how challenging it was to find a name and then not only name but then the identity, the brand itself and then how it was expressed. And like that’s why I mentioned your lapel pen. I think it’s great that you’re, I love that you’re wearing that. What are some of the, would you describe like some of the results of that rebrand and the rename, how did the market respond to it and then ultimately how has that resulted in better marketing, better, more loan originations, that sort of thing.
Chris Levy
Yes, so one of the beauties behind it is, like I mentioned before, we are in different states. We have different loan programs. And in these different markets and states, we actually had different brands that we used. So in our Pennsylvania and New Jersey markets, we called ourselves the 504 Company because that was one of the SBA loan programs that we focused on in those states. When we started our CDFI, we called that Excelsior Growth Fund.
So you had these kind of three different brands that we were trying to morph together into one and whatnot. You know, it just wasn’t great having one brand, one identity has for one brought our staff together because now everybody’s kind of approaching things under the umbrella of we’re one pursuit. all working together. And I think in the market, all of those misconceptions, when somebody would hear New York Business Development Corporation or Excelsior Growth Fund, this allowed us to really push forth our identity and what we’re all about.
Rory Holland
Earlier I said that not all lenders are created equal, but Pursuit had a unique problem. Three brands offering comparable products and services. They needed a single brand to unify their operations. It might seem obvious that creating a single brand was the answer, but it’s easy to underestimate the challenge of bringing three legacy companies together in a cohesive way.
What we achieved with Chris and his team at Pursuit ushered in a new era for the company and for the communities they serve.
Chris Levy
One of the things that we did after rebranding, we also created our set of core values for our company. And those kind of latch onto the brand as well. Those are actually have pulled up. My mouse pad is our core values right here so I can read them, read them directly. Strengthening communities through collaboration, leading with transparency and authenticity, celebrating diversity, embracing our differences and engaging on a personal level. Those things fit the brand and the name Pursuit. They don’t really fit the old entities. So it’s really fascinating just the little things that we’ve been able to kind of latch onto the rebrand and really help our company. And I’ll add one other thing, Rory, as we mentioned the anniversary of that. So February 2020 is right before the pandemic. And I have to give everybody credit involved. We did this rebrand. We had all these events planned. Oh, we’re going to host these big events to launch the company and whatnot. And then the world shut down. And we were already on the path of rebranding. We stuck with it. And it was actually incredible to see all the people, even though we didn’t see them in person and we just kind of announced this rebrand that latched on. like, oh, you guys are a pursuit now? Cool. That’s great. And it really helped during the pandemic and all the programs that came out of it, because we felt like we were really on brand with everything that we were doing during that, obviously, crazy time for especially for small business owners.
Challenges and Opportunities for Small Businesses
Rory Holland
Yeah. And you mentioned the timing. Yeah, February 2020. A rebrand and a relaunch like that at that time, it was what it was, right? We had to deal with what we had to deal with. Let’s talk a little bit about that was a tough time for a lot of people, in a lot of businesses, the PPP came out. I remember us working together on that and the influx of volume that came in for businesses looking for capital around the PPP. Let’s talk a little bit about that. Like, what was that experience like? Because it’s just I remember the volumes coming through because we were seeing them come through on the website and on the forums. What was that like for you guys?
Chris Levy
It was a surreal experience. One of those things we had no idea at the time what it was going to lead to. This was, you know, a brand new government program that got released through Congress. And I remember reading the actual bill that put into place the Paycheck Protection Program and trying to understand it. And I remember at the time telling one of my colleagues, like, oh, wow, this is fascinating. I think we can really do a lot here. We could do 1,000 of these loans maybe, think come about, did 11,000 PPP loans and I thought I was like stretching saying that we could do a thousand of them from the outset. But yeah, even working with, with the team to develop a website, you know, that happened over the course of a weekend because the way that the program worked, gets announced and they’re like, all right, next week it’s opening up. This is something brand new. Nobody had done it before. There’s all different rules and regulations in terms of what application documents need, how you calculate things.
And it was ever changing. And so the amount of people that got involved, the amount of collaborative work and just the motivation and just drive that people had during these crazy times and willingness to put forth everything to help these small businesses and people that were clearly in need because of the pandemic. It really was just extraordinary. All the work that people did just in the whole financial services industry as a whole.
We’re really proud of the work that we did. We think we played a major part in kind of keeping the economy as steady as it could be through that program. And it’s really fascinating looking back on it and just the hours and the dedication and everything, not just for myself personally, but for the entire team here at Pursuit and like I said, the entire industry.
Rory Holland
Yeah, I remember that time. We didn’t sleep a lot that weekend and that next week because our hands were on the back end of the site and the front end, just trying to make sure one, the messaging was clear, the new flows, all the integrations that had to happen, like you mentioned, all of the people, all the different entities involved and all the compliance and regulatory challenges. I think I remember a time where we’re like, the site, can our servers handle all this volume so fast? And it did, but I remember the team not sleeping a whole lot, working with you guys. So kudos for getting through that and 11,000, that’s remarkable. A lot of people got help at that time when they really needed it. So that’s great. I wanted to shift a little bit and just talk a bit about you personally and thinking about one thing that you shared with us is that we asked you a question about feedback and if you’ve ever gotten tough feedback from somebody and what that is.
I’m just kind of curious if you could share a little bit about that because you seem like a super kind guy. I think we share that. Like we want people to certain like us and work well with people and sometimes providing tough criticism or tough feedback can be tough for people. Like how did you receive that? What was that feedback and how did you receive it and how does that change the way that you work?
Chris Levy
Yeah, feedback is always important and kind of that tough love mentality. Feedback is a good thing. And I think about my career, personal life, and how do you get through some of those moments and make sure that you’re finishing what you started and always kind of putting forth your best effort. And those are just qualities that I think are really important to me and have always driven and motivated me. I have to thank my parents for always instilling that in me and making sure that I push forward with completing anything that I started. And I kind of touched on going to law school and working full time.
When I first started, I got really excited about my job and everything that I was doing. I actually at one point thought, well, I don’t really want to do law school anymore. Should I stop? And my mother sat me down. She’s like, nope, you started this. You’re going to finish it, it’s important and you got to keep going and I did that and you obviously finished law school strong and passed the bar and all that but it’s some of those things where you kind of have that. You time in your life for a while and maybe I don’t need to do that and it’s always great to have that motivating factor to to take that initiative and start something or finish something that you started.
Personal Growth and Leadership
Rory Holland
You know what do you have you ever see any tough feedback like you mentioned something off camera about being more assertive and as a CEO of a company, I think we’re held up to a certain standard. Like we have to have all the answers and we have to be a certain way. But like at the end of the day, we’re all just humans, right? We all have different personalities. Was there any tough, tough feedback you’ve received from other people that maybe changed the way that you operate?
Chris Levy
Yeah, that’s been one of the biggest challenges for me growing into this role as president and CEO is, and you mentioned it before, we all have this kind of outward ability. We want to be liked and we want to make sure that people are happy around us and whatnot. And yeah, early on, as I became CEO, I received from feedback from a member of our board saying, you’re here to make the decisions, you’re here to be assertive, we’re here to help you and guide you, but these are your decisions and you have to go with it.
You know, it feels like criticism, but it’s really not. It’s someone that’s there trying to help you be engaged and really push the envelope a little bit. And it’s not always something that’s easy and having difficult conversations is not my favorite thing to do, but it’s going to make me as a leader better, our company better. And so those are all things that I continue to work on and that feedback’s an important component of that.
Rory Holland
Yeah, it’s tough. And so I mentioned like when people look at people who lead companies, I think they assume we have all the answers that we know exactly what we need to do and how we need to do it. That means everybody on the team too. And to be honest, it’s like, and I’m like you, I’m generally a pleaser when people like me, but as I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized too that we have to make tough choices and ultimately the buck stops. It doesn’t mean that we don’t take into account what everybody else has to share and what their feedback is, and we have to do it with kindness and gentleness sometimes. But that being said, it’s wonderful that you’ve grown into this role. And from the fact that you started as an intern all the way up to CEO, if that’s the toughest feedback you get, that’s great. I get way worse. There’s a lot of things I could certainly do better as a leader of my company, but that’s great. Thank you for the willingness to share that. That’s great.
So I wanted to talk a little bit about the mission-driven work you guys do. And from our perspective, my company, customer, and our agency is mission-driven in what we do. We want to make a positive impact in the world and the financial lives of people that we serve, whether those are businesses that our clients are marketing to or B2B or they’re marketing to consumers, whatever it may be. Through our work, we want to make a difference. And I love that Pursuit does that and other CDFIs and other mission-driven financial companies.
What do you think about the notion of really all financial and fintech companies being mission driven? And is that even a possibility?
Chris Levy
It’s tough. Everyone has different masters and what they’re looking to accomplish. Obviously, some organizations are going to be more financially motivated, others more mission motivated. I like to think at the end of the day, we’re all good, compassionate people. We’re looking out for the best in others that doesn’t always happen. So I am proud of kind of being in the mission side and being able to help with those things. But one of the difficulties is there are things out there that can be harmful to businesses. We see it in terms of interest rates. You may have lenders out there that are charging 20, 25 % interest or even on your credit card. That’s what you’d get charged with that. So one of our primary focuses is how do we do our lending responsibly and making sure that we’re putting people in a position where they can succeed?
Rory Holland
Mission-driven companies don’t happen by accident. It’s a choice. They deeply care about the market they serve and want to help businesses grow in an equitable way. Pursuit is able to serve their communities in a capacity that many lenders can. So here’s my invitation. Think about your values and live them on purpose, personally and professionally.
Chris Levy
And it may not be for everyone, but it’s certainly for us and we’re proud of it. You hope that just the kind of the greater good prevails, but you know, the more that we can do to promote that responsible lending attitude and culture and making sure that the people that we’re serving are part of that. I think that at the end of the day, that’s really the goal and how we can be influential in ensuring that happens as broadly as possible.
The Future of Mission-Driven Financial Services
Rory Holland
Yeah. On that note, how do you guys feel like you’re doing from a marketing perspective? I know you work with us and we do lot of marketing together, but do you feel like you’re building the awareness and you’re helping people at the rates that you want to? Or is there more that you want to do or any particular marketing challenges that you’d be willing to share?
Chris Levy
Yeah, I think what’s great about the work that we’ve done, you know, it really did start with that rebrand and how do we promote all the things that we’re doing with the brand that works and then layering in all the different things on top of that to promote that. So we really love the success stories that we promote. You have a business that may have worked with us and they had significant growth or substantial progress in their business and we love to celebrate those things. That really resonates with people when they can see somebody else’s success and how they went through the process and how it worked. I think that’s really advantageous from a marketing perspective to kind of spread the word of all the good work that we’re doing.
I think just from a brand awareness standpoint, we’ve done a really good job at putting ourselves out there in places where it’s going to be recognized and received well. And I think that’s really important. One of the challenges with marketing some of the programs is what are all the requirements and how do you get through the process? Some of the loans that we do involve the SBA and that notoriously has this mindset of, it’s slow, there’s lots of paperwork and whatnot. So how do we market around that? How do we make the experience better for the customer to ensure that they know, well, yeah, that may have been the case 10 or 15 years ago, but here are all the ways that we’ve streamlined it and are doing things much more efficiently. It’s not going to be that stressful, onerous, paperwork-driven process. We’re a lender just like everybody else. there’s, I think in this kind of industry as a whole, there’s lot of preconceived notions that we’re trying to push through. And I think that our marketing efforts and the challenges are pushing through some of those things to really make sure that the truth is out there and that we’re positioning ourselves in a manner that attracts those businesses and bankers and other community organizations to want to work with and support an organization like ours.
Rory Holland
One thing I love about what you guys are doing is the authenticity behind it. Like you genuinely want to help people. And I think that comes through in the marketing that we’re able to help you do, but that you guys do on your own and the conversations you’re having and the feedback we’re getting from customers and prospective customers. So that’s great. Thanks for sharing that. wanted to ask, go back to something you had said and small businesses are the driver of and employ most of the people in this country.
So it’s very important that they get supported, they get the financing they need to not only start, but to operate and scale their companies, because it’s beneficial to everyone. And I happen to be a little biased because I’m a small business guy myself, and I have been for decades. So that being said, I just wanted to ask you a little bit about what do you think are some of the biggest challenges small business owners are facing now, particularly when it comes to accessing capital?
Chris Levy
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things and we’ve touched on this is the awareness. What’s out there? What’s available? How do they get something that’s really the right fit for their business is important. I think overall, just being a business owner, there’s a lot that goes involved with being a business owner, hiring employees. How do you deal with healthcare and things like that? Retirement? How, from a regulatory standpoint, are you positioning yourself?
There are so many components to owning and operating a business that go beyond, I’m just good at my skill or good at selling something or good at my service. That is really challenging. And I think the appreciation that somebody that is in this business like yourself, you have all of that. And I think that as a lender, we try to make sure that we understand there’s a lot that goes into being a business owner and it can be challenging.
And I think that’s an area where we try to provide assistance the best we can to support that. But obtaining capital and applying for a loan, especially when you’ve never done it before, it can be daunting. And especially when you’re a smaller business, you don’t have like a CFO, go apply for this loan for me. You may have yourself and one other employee. It doesn’t work that way. So I think the recognition of just how complex some of this can be is really important, especially when trying to find financing. There are many programs and opportunities that are out there, but how do you find them? And it’s not the easiest thing. we like to, we try to promote ourselves. We try to build awareness. We try to make sure that all of the bankers, community organizations, and others are aware of the things that we’re able to provide. But it’s certainly daunting to be a small business owner, especially in the world we are today.
Rory Holland
We wear a lot of hats. Absolutely. You learn quick. There’s a there’s a book that I read some years back and it was just talking about that. And the idea was you might love to bake cookies, but being a baker or starting a bakery is completely different. You don’t get to make cookies anymore. You get to run a company. You got to be the marketing person, the salesperson, the operations person, the HR person, you name it.
Having a Career and Being a Family Man
So that’s great. Thank you for that. I just kudos to you guys for what you’re doing and the trust you’re building and the resource that you’ve become for small business owners in the community and nationally. We’re really grateful to have been part of the ride with you guys and the transition from NYBDC to Pursuit has just been wonderful. I’m super excited about what the future holds, but I wanted to just ask a couple more questions. One, you know where you are in your career now as a family guy and running a company and all the responsibilities come with that. Like the season of life that you’re in now, if people really wanted to know you, what would you tell them at this point? Well, I’m probably, when you say family, I’m right in the midst of it.
Chris Levy
So I got married last year. My wife is pregnant and due with our first child next month. So I’m about a month away from becoming a father and starting my own family. So my life is going to change all for the good in the next month, month or so. So it’s a really exciting time from a personal perspective. And I think that it’s only going to make me better at my job and connecting with people and all that. It’s going to be quite the ride when that happens. And we’re really excited.
Rory Holland
Yeah, man. It is a journey. Life is. But I think about it as your single then you might buy a dog or a pet and then you’re like, okay, wow, I have responsibilities. Then you get married, lots of stuff changes. And then you have a kid, a child, and you realize where you fit in the pecking order. Responsibilities change, but it sounds like you’re ready for it that’s wonderful. Congratulations. What’s the due date?
Chris Levy
February 27th.
Rory Holland
Awesome. All right. Well, prayers for smooth and steady on that.
Well, last thing, if people wanted to connect with you or Pursuit, how would they best do that?
Chris Levy
Yeah, so our website, pursuitlending.com, it’s a fantastic website, lots of great resources on there, not only about our programs, but just resources for business owners. And you can obviously hear more about what we’re all about and learn about the opportunities that we have. Anyone wants to connect with me? I’d love to connect and hear more from your listeners, because I’m sure you have a great group of people and hopefully they’re interested in what we have to offer.
Rory Holland
Well, thank you, Chris. I will throw out, come on down to Austin, you have an open invite. We’ll go golfing. Never been to Albany, but I’ll come on up and play some golf. Probably not right now. I’m guessing it would be more like hockey than golf, but when the timing is right and post your new child arriving in the world and you have time, would love to.
Well, thank you so much, Chris. It has been wonderful to have you on this show. Congratulations on the success and we’ll look forward to seeing you guys again soon.
Chris Levy
Awesome. Thanks so much for having me, Rory. I really appreciate it.
Outro
Rory Holland
Well, if you didn’t know what a CDFI is before today, now you do. Mission-driven lending is a big part of our economy and part of why I love the work we do here at CSTMR. Pursuit is making a massive difference in the lives of small business owners who in turn provide jobs and valuable services to their communities. It’s a virtuous cycle that doesn’t make many headlines, but it’s a growth engine for our economy at every level. Chris is also at such a pivotal point in his life and career, leading a 70-year-old company and about to become a father for the very first time. What a beautiful parallel. Whether a small business owner is applying for their very first loan or welcoming a new baby into the world, it all comes down to stewardship. Chris’s journey reminds us that the best businesses aren’t cold engines of capital; they are vehicles for the American dream. Pursuit is a brand and the embodiment of what small businesses do every day.
If you’re an entrepreneur feeling daunted by the search for funding, remember what Chris said, the resources are out there and the bankable version of your company is a destination, not just where you are today. To that end, we can all learn from Chris’s example. To finish what we start, graciously accept tough feedback and never lose sight of the hardworking people we are here to serve.
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Thank you for listening to Mighty Finsights. You’ll find all of our episodes on our website, CSTMR.com, including more one-on-one interviews with Fintech and financial leaders, as well as deep dive episodes on specific topics like branding and marketing. This show is produced and distributed by CSTMR a financial marketing agency, all rights reserved. Our production team includes Zac Garver, Becky Dombrowski, Rad Jerger, Romina Gomez, and Belén Ancurio.
